BBC News Investigations

The Post Office has paid greater than £600m of public cash to proceed the use of the inaccurate Horizon IT device regardless of deciding to ditch it greater than a decade in the past, the BBC can disclose.
The phrases of the unique 1999 take care of laptop massive Fujitsu imply the Post Office has been caught with the device and not able to construct a substitute to this point, even after it contributed to one of the most UK’s largest miscarriages of justice.
Former Prime Minister Sir Tony Blair and different senior Labour govt figures have been warned about possible issues of the phrases of the deal earlier than it was once signed, the BBC has discovered.
The Post Office mentioned it “apologises unreservedly to victims of the Horizon IT scandal” and mentioned it was once dedicated to shifting clear of Fujitsu and the Horizon device.
Under the phrases of the unique £548m deal, struck underneath power from the then-Labour govt, the Post Office didn’t personal the pc code for the core a part of the Horizon device.
Although the Post Office has sought after to change providers since 2012, purchasing the rights to the code from Fujitsu or development a fully new device from scratch was once thought to be too pricey – even because the quantities paid to Fujitsu to retain the Horizon device grew and grew.
Because it didn’t personal the code, the Post Office was once additionally not able to check out the a part of the device that processed transactions, and needed to depend on assurances from Fujitsu that it was once functioning accurately.
The Post Office, which is owned by way of the federal government, prosecuted about 700 sub-postmasters between 1999 and 2015 for robbery, fraud and false accounting over meant money shortfalls in branches reported by way of the Horizon device, according to those assurances. The convictions have been overturned by way of Parliament final yr.
Earlier this yr, Business Minister Baroness Jones of Whitchurch informed the House of Lords that the Post Office is “unfortunately, still dependent on the Horizon system”, and the one manner Fujitsu might be “out of the picture” in an instant would imply shutting down all native put up places of work.
An try to exchange the device with one constructed by way of IBM failed in 2016, at a value of £40m, and the Post Office prolonged its contract with Fujitsu for no less than 4 extra years at a value of £107m.
The Post Office informed the BBC that it after all bought rights similar to the Horizon device and code in 2023, despite the fact that it isn’t identified if this contains the core device that processes transactions.
The £10m value for the licence was once “cheap – because who else would buy it?” in line with IT professional Jason Coyne, one of the most first other people to spot flaws within the device.

The BBC understands that the Post Office would possibly attempt to use this licence for Horizon’s substitute. But whilst that is being constructed, IT professionals imagine the Post Office’s contract with Fujitsu will wish to be prolonged past March 2026 – when it’s recently because of finish.
Issues over who would personal the Horizon device started when the contract to computerise the community of Post Office branches – then numbering 18,000 – was once negotiated between the Post Office, Fujitsu and its subsidiary ICL Pathway, and the federal government.
In May 1999, Sir Tony Blair won an replace from the Treasury, in a file caution that discussions with ICL over the phrases of a deal “have foundered”.
One of the sticking issues was once round highbrow belongings rights (IPR) – which integrated possession of the code throughout the Horizon device.
The file says that ICL was once “not prepared to… give perpetual licences for all the IPR”.
It is going on to mention that if the Post Office ever sought after to modify providers, the landlord of the IPR “would be in a strong position to drive a costly settlement with the Post Office”.

The BBC has additionally bought a file from 20 May the similar yr, which was once despatched to then-Chancellor of the Exchequer Gordon Brown and different govt officers, caution about the problem of who owned the code.
In it, a Treasury civil servant states that one of the most “main problems” with the phrases of a proposed take care of ICL for the Horizon device was once the “issues surrounding ownership of assets and IPR of the kit acquired by” the Post Office.
Mr Coyne, the IT professional, mentioned it was once “utter madness” that the deal went forward in July 1999 as it supposed that the Post Office was “operationally reliant on Horizon”, despite the fact that it didn’t personal the rights to make use of the device with out Fujitsu.
A spokesperson for Sir Tony Blair didn’t cope with the BBC’s questions round his wisdom of the IPR problems however mentioned he “took very seriously the issues raised about the Horizon contract” on the time.
“The final decision was taken after an investigation by an independent panel recommended it was viable.
“It is now transparent that the Horizon product was once significantly improper, resulting in tragic and entirely unacceptable penalties, and Mr Blair has deep sympathy with all the ones affected.”
A spokesperson for Gordon Brown said he “shouldn’t have been proven the memo” from 20 May 1999 and he would have been copied in as a “formality”.
“He was once now not interested by any paintings associated with the buying, award or control of the Horizon contract.”

The warnings about ownership of the IPR came true more than a decade later when Post Office decided to invite other companies to take over the Horizon contract.
Former executives told the Post Office Inquiry, which is examining decisions leading up to the wrongful convictions of hundreds of sub-postmasters, how the company had found it difficult to replace Fujitsu.
Alisdair Cameron, former chief financial officer at the Post Office, said that Fujitsu were “tricky colleagues” and “it was once authorised that Horizon, and the infrastructure on which it was once constructed, was once prone”.
But Mike Young, chief operations officer at the Post Office between October 2010 and April 2012, told the inquiry that Fujitsu management said to him “the code is ours. You personal the carrier since you pay for that however you do not pay [for] the code”.
Documents released by the Post Office Inquiry show the “IPR factor” was often discussed by top-level Post Office executives.
“There is a possibility that we is also not able to agree an IP license with Fujitsu on affordable phrases”, said an agenda for a Post Office board meeting in July 2013 – while other documents describe concerns over costs.
Procurement specialist Ian Makgill told us he believes not owning the IPR to the Horizon software would have been a factor in the collapse of the 2016 IBM deal to replace the system.
He said that if IBM had tried to build new software without any of the IPR from Horizon, it would have needed to “get started from scratch, which might have value the Post Office masses of thousands and thousands of kilos”.
“IPR is the explanation why the Post Office hasn’t been ready to transport clear of Fujitsu and the Horizon device,” he said.
Since 1999, the Post Office has spent £2.5bn on contracts with Fujitsu. This figure includes more than £600m spent on bridging or extension contracts to continue the Horizon contract since the Post Office started looking for new suppliers in 2012, according to analysis from data firm Tussell and the BBC.
Many of the sub-postmasters wrongly accused by the Post Office maintained that there was no missing money and the shortfalls were down to errors in the Horizon system.
But with the Post Office unable to directly inspect the system which processed transactions, it accepted assurances from Fujitsu that the system was working correctly.

“Fujitsu have been preventing the entire time to offer protection to their funding and their highbrow belongings, moderately than having a look after the pursuits of the sub-postmasters,” said Mr Makgill.
Fujitsu did not respond to the BBC’s specific questions but stated that it was “fascinated by supporting the Post Office of their plans for a brand new carrier supply fashion” so branches can continue to operate.
Mr Makgill said that the Post Office bears the “final accountability” over the fate of wrongly accused sub-postmasters.
“They did not must take the ones prosecutions, they did not must take other people to courtroom.”
Sub-postmasters currently using the Horizon IT software continue to report issues with it. Seven in 10 said they had experienced an “unexplained discrepancy” on the system since January 2020, according to a YouGov survey with 1,015 respondents commissioned by the Post Office Inquiry in 2024.
The Post Office has said that it has not undertaken any prosecutions related to Horizon since 2015 and “has no goal of doing so”.
It informed the BBC that it’s “enforcing adjustments throughout all of the organisation” so that it is “have compatibility for the long run, basically modified and with postmasters at its middle”.
It said this includes working with Fujitsu to correct discrepancies and reviewing the current version of Horizon – replacing it in stages, under a five-year plan named the “Future Technology Portfolio”.
Post Office chairman Nigel Railton has said a new IT system would not be introduced in one “large bang” but there would be gradual changes.
The Post Office did not respond to the BBC’s specific questions about IPR being the reason why the company was unable to ditch Fujitsu, and said it would not be appropriate to comment ahead of the Post Office Inquiry’s final report.
The Department of Business and Trade told the BBC that it was providing £136m of funding over the next five years to the Future Technology Portfolio, and was “operating at tempo” to verify the Post Office had the era it wanted, together with changing the Horizon device.